lucky964

mr brown will now about this guy.
i read the recent thread on the isf and then cringed as i have bought five teams since october from him.
all very convincing - refs 293,259,133,143 blue version and 178 shrink wrapped.
ian ridler saw all but the 293 at lionhearts a week ago and spotted (eagle eye i might add):-

259 - different shades of brown on the boots
143 - window box label and the number has a different white background to the rest of the box (ie no grain on the white).

his view was that they were all dodgy but i must admit they were all very,very convincing and i could not see anything wrong with the 133 or the 133 or the 293.

i contacted mr morrone and here's the email exchange (last email is at the top):-

"
Hello,
I read what you and your friends think about me, Im' very surprised about it, because I've never had problems with subbuteo buyer (Please read my feedback).
I'm very disappointed you're not happy with the teams, general I guaranteed a full refound for the ipotetic unhappy buyer, but non after 5/7 months.
I think you can't wake up a day and decide, for your reasons, that you don't like them, this is out of every commercial rules.
In addition if you don't belive in me, I don't understand why I do belive in you, After all this time you can have substitute all the teams, and so you can send fake teams to me, because after all this time I'm not be able to recognizad them.
Sorry,
L.
　
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Rosten" <jonro@coversure.co.uk>
To: <morronel@livenet.it>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 11:17 AM
Subject: FW: FW: hw subbuteo teams
　
Hi L,
I have not heard back from you on this.
I want to send these teams back to you as I am not happy with them.
Can you kindly get back to me
Thanks
jon
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Rosten [mailto:jonro@coversure.co.uk]
Sent: 30 May 2011 10:16
To: 'morronel@livenet.it''
Subject: FW: FW: hw subbuteo teams
Hi L,
I have not heard back from you on this.
I want to send these teams back to you as I am not happy with them.
Can you kindly get back to me
Thanks
jon
From: Jon Rosten [mailto:jonro@coversure.co.uk]
Sent: 25 May 2011 21:02
To: 'morronel@livenet.it'
Subject: RE: FW: hw subbuteo teams
I am sorry but I am simply not happy with these teams and I would kindly
request my money back. If you are so sure they are ok then you wont have any
problem selling them again.
My friend is a very well known Subbuteo expert and his opinion is highly
regarded in England and italy.he is one of the highest in terms of Subbuteo
painting as he paints Subbuteo for a living himself - honestly I might add.
Your reputation on ebay is not good I am afraid and you should read this
thread from the English Subbuteo forum.maybe you would do well to go on
there and make some comments too.
http://www.subbuteoforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15282&start=0
I would kindly ask again for a full refund for return of these teams
I look forward to hearing from you
Thanks
jon
-----Original Message-----
From: morronel@livenet.it [mailto:morronel@livenet.it]
Sent: 25 May 2011 19:53
To: jonro@coversure.co.uk
Subject: Re: FW: hw subbuteo teams
　
Hello,
sorry for the delay in replying but I can read mails only in the evening
at home.
I take a look to the teams, I think they are all good, 3 of them come
from my own collection,
how do you state that they are all fakes (and the 178 is repainted too)?
I'm I not a great expert, but I think they are original, maybe did your
friend (that so sure) work for subbuteo company in the past?
Cheers,
L.
　
　
In data 25/5/2011, "Jon Rosten" <jonro@coversure.co.uk> ha scritto:
>Hi L,
>
>Can I have your reply to my email below please
>
>Thanks
>
>jon
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jon Rosten [mailto:jonro@coversure.co.uk]
>Sent: 24 May 2011 19:26
>To: 'morronel@livenet.it'
>Subject: RE: hw subbuteo teams
>
>Thanks for getting back to me.
>Here are photos of the teams I have taken for my photo library.
>The reference number is shown too.
>
>Also, my spreadsheet now attached with prices paid/dates.
>
>Does this help?
>
>Regards
>
>jon
>
>>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: morronel@livenet.it [mailto:morronel@livenet.it]
>Sent: 24 May 2011 19:00
>To: jonro@coversure.co.uk
>Subject: Re: hw subbuteo teams
>
>
>Hello,
>I'm very disappointed for this.
>Sincerely I didn't remember all teams I've sold.
>But I can tell you, that the teams I sell are all original for me, but
>maybe I'm not a great expert like your friend,
>They all come partially from my collection (over 700 H/w) like the teams
> currently on sale, or from Ebay (and I resell them)or from other
>collectors.
>Anyway You speak about 2 teams, but what they are?
>Have you some picture of them? Maybe I can understand where I bought
>them.
>Cheers,
>L.
>
>
>
>In data 24/5/2011, "Jon Rosten" <jonro@coversure.co.uk> ha scritto:
>
>>Hi there,
>>
>>
>>
>>I have since October purchased five hw Subbuteo teams from you as per the
>>attached spreadsheet summary.
>>
>>I can back up these purchases with ebay receipts.
>>
>>My ebay id is ihbmassc.
>>
>>
>>
>>To me - I have been collecting five years and I have learnt a lot but I
>>don't know everything - the teams looked ok but my friend is more of an
>>expert than I and he saw them at the weekend and he thinks they are
>>repaints.
>>
>>
>>
>>For example,
>>
>>
>>
>>The 143 box label on close inspection clearly shows that the number "143"
>>has been added at a later date as the background is different.the blue he
>>says is the wrong shade
>>
>>On the 259 the boots show two tones of brown which demonstrates
>>repainting.also the label looks to have been meddled with.
>>
>>
>>
>>It may well be you have purchased these teams and did not realise so I am
>>not saying you are responsible for the painting or labelling but you can
>see
>>what that I am not happy about these teams.
>>
>>
>>
>>I am of course not happy with these teams now and I would kindly ask for a
>>full refund.
>>
>>The total refund I am seeking is therefore £631.10 as I will return the
>>teams to you at my own cost and fully insured.
>>
>>
>>
>>I look forward to hearing from you shortly.
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>jon"


ian ridler suggested taking him on and reporting him to ebay but from my experience they will do bugger all.
anyone got any views on what i can/should do now if anything?

jon

Jon, can i have your permission to post the above on the Italian forum. We may get some further responses from the Italians in the know.

Or you could add it yourself in the English section. Maybe worth a try.

yes feel free to let them know.

i like the way he suggests i am a fraud!
i think any decent seller would take the teams back even if time has elapsed

jon

subbuteo forever 207 wrote:

yes feel free to let them know.

i like the way he suggests i am a fraud!
i think any decent seller would take the teams back even if time has elapsed

jon

I agree Jon...he's just wriggling.

Hello Jon,

Sorry to learn that you've bought from Lucky.

I knew of some of the suspicions about him, but took a pot shot at a HW75 he was selling since it looked kosher in the photos he provided on his ebay auction.

I examined the team when it arrived; no question, it was repainted. Quite good - but there were significant flaws. Again, the brown on the boots/hair was one of these. The density of the paint was another.

I returned the team and received a full refund.

Obviously you're being forced to go through more hoops - but I hope you get a good result on this pursuit.

How many others have been hoodwinked by his 'skills'?!

certainly see spuds point on the 259 boots and the ref sticker on the 143 but the 133,293 and 178 shrink wrapped i find really,really hard to find anything wrong.
here's the five of them - see what you think.

293

178 shrink wrapped.
box warping does seem consistent with an old shrinl wrapped teams

sorry i know the 178 is a crap photo.

259

143 blue version.
check out the "143" on the sticker.the backgournd varies from the rest of the stickers background.

That's the problem Jon...He is quiet good in his painting and printing skills. Enough to get away with, in photos.

The only way you can be sure of his deviousness, is by having the team in your hand. The photos don't really show what you need to see with your own eyes.

In some instances, you actually have to feel the paintwork and sometimes smell it. You can't get that with photo's unfortunately.

A nightmare tbh.

spud,

check out the number "223" on the ref box.style look familiar?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUBBUTEO-ORIGINAL-HW-223-WERDER-BREMEN-/350468138408?pt=UK_SportsMemorabilia_Subbuteo_SM&hash=item51998765a8

oh and he's let the side slip here - what no ref sticker?
must have read mr brown's comments on the green forum

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUBBUTEO-ORIGINAL-HW-SPORTING-LISBON-277-/350468140903?pt=UK_SportsMemorabilia_Subbuteo_SM&hash=item5199876f67

subbuteo forever 207 wrote:

spud,

check out the number "223" on the ref box.style look familiar?

[url=http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUBBUTEO-ORIGINAL-HW-223-WERDER-BREMEN-/350468138408?pt=UK_SportsMemorabilia_Subbuteo_SM&hash=item51998765a8

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUBBUTEO-ORIGINAL-HW-223-WERDER-BREMEN-/350468138408?pt=UK_SportsMemorabilia_Subbuteo_SM&hash=item51998765a8[/quote[/url]]

Exactly the same technique Jon. And look at the corners of the sticker. All hand cut by scissors and not conform. He's using a printer. I also think he's shrinkwrapping teams. The bloke is a crook.

You should report him Jon...or contact him and point out what he's doing.