Netcam and Subbuteo

As maybe you are aware, Netcam (the Total Soccer maker) has reach an agreement with Hasbro about the rights of the Subbuteo brand. Marco Bosco, an Old Subbuteo player, interviewed his friend Piero Capponi, the FISTF president and Netcam marketing manager, about this important news. The interview has been posted on www.oldsubbuteo.it and this is a rough translation.

Q. What do you feel having the Subbuteo name rights?
A. A strong emotion, that I still feeling after six months, when we first contacted Hasbro. My mother was the first to know it. The one who bought me Subbuteo stuff when I was a kid. We had (with Hasbro) fantastic meetings that I would have paid just to be there. We could talk about these meetings for hours.

Q. Tell us about this first contact with Hasbro.
A. The agreement with Hasbro is the result of our work with Total Soccer and the big football clubs. Hasbro spanish license manager contacted us. He worked in the Real Madrid club and he was in charge of the Total Soccer license. In the last three years we often talked about Subbuteo, Table Soccer, about my own commitment. When he got the Subbuteo file on his desk, he contacted me (at the Nurnberg toy fair) and we started talking.

Q. Tell us about the action plan: what, how and where you will distribute? Will you use the same network as Total Soccer?
A. We'll start in the 2012 with the European Championship (we already have the rights). We still are unsure about distribution channels, but Giochi Preziosi could be the main European distribution channel.

Q. Miniature types: HW, LW or else? Will you stop the one-piece Hasbro bases?
A. Still working on it. We will do LW for sure, for the traditional Subbuteo, and Total Soccer base type, revisited, for the up-to-date players, There will be space for a special HW project, a real surprise for the Subbuteo fans. About the latter, a project where I'm fully involved, we are already working with Enrico Tecchiati (Astrobase).

Q. What about replica makers, will you talk with them?
A. Never faced the matter, and I doubt we will in the future.

Q. Will you be a presence at the Subbuteo events (as the several Old Subbuteo meetings)?
A. We cannot be a continuous presence, but we will be occasionally. We are interested at every Subbuteo community, every playing, talking or living Subbuteo reality. We will carefully pick and help the right communities, the ones that are doing things fairly and with passion.

Q. How many ref? Will you start from scratch or will you rely on an old one? And which one?
A. Still top secret stuff. We are making use of top class advices, but we will respect the Subbuteo story and tradition for sure.

Q. Team refs aside, which accessories we will see on the shelves?
A. We have a 35 items list... but this is fase three, we are still at fase zero. Too early to talk about it.

Q. Where you'll promote the Subbuteo brand? Will be bounded to FISTF or will be totally aside? Will we have Subbuteo sponsored events as in the past?
A. As I said before, we will choose who and how support, based on several factors. Personally speaking I don't like some Old Subbuteo and table soccer aspects. We will think twice before to bound the Subbuteo name, an heritage of every enthusiast of the game, to events that are not up to par. It's a worldwide project, we are not interested to the local wars.

Q. What about the marketing plan?
A. Too early to talk about it, I can only say that will be on an european base.

Q. Do you really think that the Subbuteo brand is still appealing?
A. I'm working with Total Soccer from three years now. Doing business at any level with Giochi Preziosi or Bizak, Carrefour or Leclerc, Real Madrid or Barcelona, Eurosport or Sky, Harrods or Corte Ingles, Nurnberg or Hong Kong fair, we would end talking about Subbuteo. Our researches say that more than 95% of italian men over 35 are aware about Subbuteo. And we have surprising data even in marginal countries.

Q. Every past effort to revive the game (zombies, one-piece bases, Hasbro flats, the new table soccer bases) has been a flop and a game impoverishment, at least for the hardcore fan. Don't you feel that Subbuteo will be bounded forever to the past?
A. Absolutely yes. Is bounded to the past. But this is a plus. We want to find the right mix between the diehard enthusiasm, nostalgia effect, advertsing and marketing, big clubs and new technologies. Vintage and seventies are in fashion now!

Q. Total Soccer were distributed everywhere, from the newspaper kiosk to the superstores: is a sound distribution even for the Subbuteo brand?
A. In the toys world, distributors counts. Every country will have his distribution plan. But it's still early to talk about it.

Q. Last, but not least, question: do you mean to regulate the Subbuteo term use (not only on the web)?
A. Yes, of course, we will do it. We will grant the right of use of the Subbuteo term to everyone not using it for business as, to give an example, the APS, Associação Portuguesa de Subbuteo, or the Subbuteo Club Stembert. They can keep the Subbuteo name, even using official logos. But they will have to sign an ethic agreement, about fair play, education, sport and not commercial use.
We don't want to be associated with bad behaviours. We will try to reach an agreement even for the business sides. We hope to deal it with everyone.

Thanks for posting that Fabio... really interesting stuff.



They seem to want World domination.



Lets see what they come up with regarding quality of teams and accessories.



It might be a load of old rubbish just like the Hasbro and Total Soccer bases and figures.



Just because it has the 'Subbuteo' name, it doesn't mean it will be quality.



For example seeing the new Topspin Boxset, with HW figures and all Card inserts, just like the original Subbuteo boxsets, was such a joy and a sign of quality and good research. These plastic trays and inserts just don't do it for many.



The biggest thought that crosses my mind, is the money spent on investment, and will they make a profit? It will be an interesting period for sure.

I thought that too Claudio...



They do seem to come across as very arrogant. Perhaps they should think before upsetting the people who may wish to buy their product.

what will this mean to subbuteo emporium and subbuteo world and the like ?

Very interesting. Good job on the translation. I hope they won't bother movements such as Oldsubbuteo and WASPA in the future.

interview discussions wrote:

Q. Last, but not least, question: do you mean to regulate the Subbuteo term use (not only on the web)?
A. Yes, of course, we will do it. We will grant the right of use of the Subbuteo term to everyone not using it for business .... But they will have to sign an ethic agreement, about fair play, education, sport and not commercial use.
We don't want to be associated with bad behaviours. We will try to reach an agreement even for the business sides. We hope to deal it with everyone.

Might be some interesting implications for on-line forums that wish to use the name Subbuteo...particularly around an 'ethics' agreement, which will clearly have more of a focus on 'celebrating inclusivity' rather than the current benchmark of ethical behaviours tolerated by some Subbuteo forums, which typically let their members get away with the old "I didn't make a racist comment when I said *#!*#ing greasies! How can that be construed as racist yer toby?!" approach...

I think that's what Claudio is getting at Fingers...



If Netcam are looking to be all inclusive in who they allow to use their licenced name, then a certain forum is on sticky ground i feel.



I had a peek today, and apparantly it's cool to be like 30's Germany:roll:



I'm all for free speach, but why bring some discussions like that to a Subbuteo forum?



Some people need to get out more and get a life, instead of living it on a forum, and think before they post imho. Kids are reading forums like this... It's not rocket science to see Netcam would disassociate themselves from such like and get the name 'Subbuteo' removed from such forums. Such a shame really, especially when we are talking about little plastic men.

I havnt read the responses to my post on the green forum yet. Apart from 1. It was meant as a genuine effort at revealing repainters but with a bit of humour. Certainly nothing sinister or inappropriate in anything I wrote.

As usual I feel, people read forums and are unable to discern the intent because its not a two way process, with bodily interaction or expression etc. In short, even I sometimes wonder what someone means.

Therefore, I feel, NOTHING thats written on any forum should be taken at face value unless it is explicit in its intent. Also, theres no chance of this mob stopping the Green Forum from continuing with the name. It would create too much bad blood and affect their sales in the UK and beyond.

I wouldn't be too sure of that... How many people actually contribute to posting on that Forum? Less than 50 regularly?



It's not going to effect the sales of anything done by Netcam. They won't associate their licenced name to a forum, if there is stuff written on it, that could be conceived as inappropriate. Already potential sponsers of events have pulled out after reading that forum.



Why is there so much written on their that is complete drivel and nothing to do with Subbuteo. It might be banter to some, but to others it is a complete waste of time and of no interest.



You have to remember Children read these forums... Talk of Nazis, Racism etc, might be said as tongue in cheek but some will look at it, and see it for something else, especially when some in response think it's cool.



Subbuteo forums are for Subbuteo talk...Surely?



Unfortunately that forum has been let down by a few people and have spoilt it for the majority.



Even today...one character is posting up pics of teams he has bought on ebay, then repainted some himself, and posted them up as originals.



There are some seriously strange people on there...



This hobby gets weirder by the minute...



Just as a side note, Netcam are a SPANISH company not Italian as you have said on another post.

They can stop anyone using the Subbuteo name now they have the license...especially if they feel it effects their business negatively.

You only have to see how much money they have invested in this, to see they are very serious. Getting a licence from every League club is not cheap.

Can see a few solicitors letters flying about in due course.

Reasonable enuff points. But youve got to remember that on the Green Forum - just like here - there are different sections. EG " Anything Else " where people discuss things other than Subby. I for one think that section is excellent. People get to know each other better and theres more of a community feel. I dont mean more than here or anything. I mean it contributes to the site in question.

I will give you the Spanish / Italian point, an oversight on my part. Im not fussed what they are tbh. But I disagree that they can stop the Greens. For the reasons I said. Also, even though there might be only 50 or so regular contributors, there are many more members and visitors. It IS a major site, if not THE major English speaking site for Subby. Netcam would be very silly indeed to try to interfere with it. Finally. It would be nice if you would come back on the Green site and contribute. I know you got some very unecessary stick but I trust thats put to bed now.

subbuteoman wrote:

Reasonable enuff points. But youve got to remember that on the Green Forum - just like here - there are different sections. EG " Anything Else " where people discuss things other than Subby. I for one think that section is excellent. People get to know each other better and theres more of a community feel. I dont mean more than here or anything. I mean it contributes to the site in question.

I will give you the Spanish / Italian point, an oversight on my part. Im not fussed what they are tbh. But I disagree that they can stop the Greens. For the reasons I said. Also, even though there might be only 50 or so regular contributors, there are many more members and visitors. It IS a major site, if not THE major English speaking site for Subby. Netcam would be very silly indeed to try to interfere with it. Finally. It would be nice if you would come back on the Green site and contribute. I know you got some very unecessary stick but I trust thats put to bed now.

They could easily force the Green forum to drop the use of the word 'Subbuteo' from the title. I doubt whether this would have any effect on their sales. Sometimes I think we believe that the whole Subbuteo community revolves around the Green Forum. When you look at the amount of activity on ebay and the fact that repainters known to us still sell in large numbers I would say that only a minority of enthusiasts visit the forum.

subbuteoman wrote:

Reasonable enuff points. But youve got to remember that on the Green Forum - just like here - there are different sections. EG " Anything Else " where people discuss things other than Subby. I for one think that section is excellent. People get to know each other better and theres more of a community feel. I dont mean more than here or anything. I mean it contributes to the site in question.

I will give you the Spanish / Italian point, an oversight on my part. Im not fussed what they are tbh. But I disagree that they can stop the Greens. For the reasons I said. Also, even though there might be only 50 or so regular contributors, there are many more members and visitors. It IS a major site, if not THE major English speaking site for Subby. Netcam would be very silly indeed to try to interfere with it. Finally. It would be nice if you would come back on the Green site and contribute. I know you got some very unecessary stick but I trust thats put to bed now.

We'll have to agree to disagree on your point about how important the Subbuteo forums are Paul.

And Gulley is right about any forum using the 'Subbuteo' name. They could demand for it to be removed. It doesn't mean the forum wouldn't exist though. Just under a different name. But i'm sure if it stays non offensive, it won't have any problems.



There are many collectors and players that don't use forums. Many more than who use them. Also lots of communication goes on through emails and telephone calls amongst collectors. But the majority aren't interested and keep themselves to themselves.

As for going back to the green forum. I pop in from time to time to read, and i receive pm's from people on it, but i really don't feel the need to contribute to it anymore. I get all i need from this one and the Italian Oldsubbuteoforum. And i prefer the 'feel' to both of them.

Granted it has a wealth of knowledge on there, but the majority of chat now is not really Subbuteo Collecting related.

I've no malice with anyone on there...it just doesn't interest me that much anymore.

I'm sure you'll understand.

Netcam will adopt a few strategies to make this aspect of their business a success. Typical ones are:

Market development - seeking to find new buyers for standard Subby products

Consolidation - producing the regular stuff to the regular people

Product development - new products to the regular crowd

Diversification - new products to new buyers



However, when they start up they won't have much of a 'regular crowd' of their own customers, and will need to do more of market development, and with a mix of the old and the new. In targeting where is the most lucrative market, they will probably go for the 'low hanging fruit' of current Subby enthusiasts, but this will have to be the tip of the iceberg for them if they are to make the business work.

Below the iceberg? In the 1980s there were nearly 7 million Subbuteo players worldwide...most of them will have more spending power, and greater ability to influence the behaviour of others.

It's quite clear that to make their new business a success they'll be forced to develop an assertive business strategy, and won't have the luxury of pandering to too many sensitivitivies of the current 'regular crowd'.



...and one word on the purpose of the green forum? According to the founders it is "to provide Subbuteo collectors and players worldwide a forum worthy of the name Subbuteo"...
And how do they currently justify any comments that may undermine this forum being worthy of the name Subbuteo?
"Views expressed on this forum are of the opinion of the person posting only, and do not represent the opinions of the forum owners, Hasbro Inc and/or Hasbro International Inc in the UK and/or other countries unless stated."

Thats fair enuff Ian. Point taken. Good points by Fingers too.

Except for one thing Spudski. You HAVE something to contribute to the Green forum. Theres quite a few newbies now and they are enthusiastic and most do post. If you could see your way to throwing in an odd post sure it would help other people and do no harm, would it ?

Seeing as you do pop over for a read and whatnot anyway. You are a GREAT loss to the Green forum, as are a few others. I wish yous would all come back. At least a bit. One chap, who we all know, has mended his ways somewhat. I enjoy his crack too, tho I can see he caused a bit of offence.

No problems Paul...and thanks for the considerate words.



However, like i said...the Green forum isn't for me anymore.



There's nothing more i can particularly add to that forum, that can't be found by using the search button.



Apart from the banter...which doesn't interest me, as i've got the pub and my mates for that, then there is nothing really new to add.



Like i said... i'm sure you'll understand.

By denying the green forum the right to use the Subbuteo name, NetCam
would only be upsetting a small minority of 30 somethings HW collectors
most of who couldn't care less about anything new. I'm not sure it would
make an iota of difference to their sales.

spudski wrote:

As for going back to the green forum. I pop in from
time to time to read, and i receive pm's from people on it, but i really
don't feel the need to contribute to it anymore. I get all i need from
this one and the Italian Oldsubbuteoforum. And i prefer the 'feel' to
both of them.

ditto.

Yeah. But you two boys can obviously read and speak Italian...I cant.

Quote :

Yeah. But you two boys can obviously read and speak Italian...I cant.

The Google Translator is a great help as are all the Italian collectors on the forum who are happy to reply in English.



I still use the green forum, but find myself drawn more to the Italian forum these days.

subbuteoman wrote:

Yeah. But you two boys can obviously read and speak Italian...I cant.

Paul mate like my goodself you don't really speak much English either said the Lancastrian jackeen

ralphtheclaret wrote:

subbuteoman wrote:

Yeah. But you two boys can obviously read and speak Italian...I cant.

Paul mate like my goodself you don't really speak much English either said the Lancastrian jackeen

You can usually pick out the odd word though.

Very good lads...

Any news on this topic?

odoiporos wrote:

Any news on this topic?

see www.subbuteo.com