Top Spin Club Edition

It's a replica, but I think it's worthing a look:http://www.topspinsoccer.it/

Looking good Fabio.



Alberto must be really proud.

Good job!

I cant see it. Where does one click ?

large preview on oldsubbuteo.forumfree.it
http://oldsubbuteo.forumfree.it/?t=57026591

thanks claudio



the box set looks fantastic with the subbuteo style cardboard inlay and the long style team boxes are awsome as well

Yes. Thanks Claudio. I agree with what Spurs says, it looks great. But for me, no. I dont like the goals at all and the figures are strange and " Leggy ". If Superfooty change to Card inlays for their club edition, which theyve already done in their new box range, they beat Topspin hands down.

How can the figures be strange and leggy when they are almost an exact replica of the original Subbuteo moulded HW?



In fact they are recognised as the closest replica.



Superfooty is a completely different game to Subbuteo. It is 'Table soccer' with table soccer bases and figures.



The likes of Topspin, Santiago and Replay are replicas of the Original Subbuteo, and the companies try to create figures and bases that play the same way as Subbuteo.



Each to their own of course...but the two are not the same.

Very nice set indeed.

It doesn't look like it (as evidenced by the information on the website) but I was wondering whether the set may be available with teams other than the standard red and blue teams.

By special order, perhaps.

spudski wrote:

How can the figures be strange and leggy when they are almost an exact replica of the original Subbuteo moulded HW?



In fact they are recognised as the closest replica.



Superfooty is a completely different game to Subbuteo. It is 'Table soccer' with table soccer bases and figures.



The likes of Topspin, Santiago and Replay are replicas of the Original Subbuteo, and the companies try to create figures and bases that play the same way as Subbuteo.



Each to their own of course...but the two are not the same.

I was comparing like for like, one box set against the other and in this case Superfooty is better. Also whilst I agree that Santiago is the business, this Top Spin team IS Leggy. Im going from the Photo. In the photo they are NOT as good as SF, they are Leggy and not at all like original HWs. Maybe in the hand they are different but in this PHOTO they most definitely are not like HWs.

You need to get your eyes sorted mate.

And also start doing a bit of research. No offence... they look leggy in the photo because the boots haven't been painted.
They are not replicas of the origonal HW's, but replicas of the original 'moulded' HW figure.
The team in the seperate team box is a replica of the HW figure.
It's impossible to compare Superfooty Table footy with Santiago or Topspin, because Superfooty figures are not replicas of any figure ever produced by Subbuteo. They are completely different, including the bases.
It's like comparing Draughts with Chess.
Superfooty is for playing Table football...it is nothing like Subbuteo.
Show me a Superfooty figure and base that has ever been produced by SSG pre Hasbro that looks and plays remotely the same.
Like i said...no offence, but your crusade for all things Superfooty is rather over the top imho.

Its not a crusade. Their goals havnt been great either, I admit that, The Goals on this Topspin set are Shiite. Simple really. I admitted that Santiago is the closest clone to the real deal and fair play to Santiago. But Santiago dont do a box set do they ? But Superfooty is a very good product, especially for Newbies and Returnees. I will go back and check the boots, however. So ya see, yer not totally right old chap...

subbuteoman wrote:

Its not a crusade. Their goals havnt been great either, I admit that, The Goals on this Topspin set are Shiite. Simple really. I admitted that Santiago is the closest clone to the real deal and fair play to Santiago. But Santiago dont do a box set do they ? But Superfooty is a very good product, especially for Newbies and Returnees. I will go back and check the boots, however. So ya see, yer not totally right old chap...

What's wrong with the Superfooty and Topspin Goalnets Paul? I'd be interested to know...have you played with either of them? To say something is Shiite is quiet harsh considering how much effort i know goes into getting such things tooled and made, and produced in lower numbers. Both Goalnets are based on one's that Subbuteo originally produced. Having put in a lot of hard work and dedicating this Box set to his recently departed Father, i'm sure Alberto will be over the moon that you've called part of it 'Shiite'...very nice i must say.



Mark at Santiago produce's one off type box sets, often 5 a side, and 'Derby' Editions.



I can see Superfooty is a good product, but it is 'Table Soccer' and not a replica of 'Subbuteo'. Apart from the price, can you tell me how Superfooty Table soccer is good for returning SUBBUTEO players? It's obviously great if you want to play Table soccer, but not SUBBUTEO. You don't seem to be grasping the difference in the games. No offence...but you have avoided this issue and me asking you to show a Superfooty figure or base that is a replica of pre Hasbro Subbuteo.



I've nothing against Superfooty...it is a good product. But it isn't Subbuteo.



As for totally right...totally right about what? You've not answered anything from my previous post and gone off on a tangent.



I remain as always...



Old Chap;)

Orite then. Here we go...( sigh ). I think perhaps we are at cross purposes. This is about what things LOOK like and their price. I shall go into details then.

I have got Superfooty Goals. I boughta club edition upon returning to the game. Had Subbuteo Club Edition been available new I would have bought that too. but it wasnt and still isnt. The SF Goal Frame is great, the netting is Shiite. By their own admission btw.

As fer the Topspin goals, Im sorry to hear about the blokes dad. I didnt know. But wheteher his Dad is about or not is not relevant ina discussion of the merits of a product. In MY estimation, those goals LOOK shiite. Mainly the frame, nets are ok.

As to SF and Subbutteo, ur being a bit hidebound old boy. Yes SF is not per se, Subby but it is Table Soccer, Subby is also Table Soccer. The thing is, to 98% of the GENERAL population SF looks like Subby and would easily pass for it. It is therefore essentailly Subby. Thats why I and many others now too, buy it. I remain...etc

We'll have to agree to disagree then mate...

I personally think the goals in the Top Spin set look the business. Minimal and fair bit of depth - ticks all the right boxes for me.

I agree with Wrighty, these goals look quite good and would be tempted to buy some , although its a shame that topspin products are so hard to get hold off in this country (England).

With regard to the various figure types I think Top Spin are the best for looks. If you compare them to Santiago certainly the features are more clearly defined on the Top Spin figure and very close to the Subbuteo original.

Tbh...it's all relative. There is room for all Table Soccer and Subbuteo style products imho. It's obviously down to the individuals preferance on what they like and can afford.

I'll never agree with Subbyman that Subbuteo and Table Soccer are the same game. I've played both forms and they are totally different.

I gave an example as what Chess is to Draughts... Table soccer, because of the bases is like Draughts, it's all about flicking in straight lines. Where as Subbuteo is like Chess, where you can also flick in straight lines, but because of the bases, you can manoeuvre the figure in all different directions. The mindset when playing is totally different. A blocking move in Subbuteo can be totally ineffective when you can curl around the figure. This is impossible in Table Soccer, so you have to think more in angles.

Each to their own of course, but i find it hard to swallow when someone calls a product Shiite. I know how hard the guys work and the money they invest in all the products, and i'm sure the lads at Superfooty, Santiago and Topspin wouldn't appreciate such derogatory terms, especially when it's such a hard market work in. Most are one man businesses.

Superfooty and other Table Soccer products that are made by Topspin, Santiago and LPM are not my thing, but i'd never call them shiite because i know some people like them and there is a market for them. Regardless of looks, price or quality...

As for comparing figures, I think Topspin, Santiago, Replay, ACM etc have all done well in reproducing the Original HW figure and bases. Each has their pros and cons and it's all down to personal choice, which is nice to have.

I've taken a couple photo's to give comparisons if anyone is interested...



From L to R...



Original Moulded Subbuteo, Topspin Moulded, Original HW, Topspin HW, Santiago HW.







And for some alternative figures...

Original LW Subbuteo, Topsin LW,AL1, AL1 vintage, AL1 Black.

Many thanks, Ian for this presentation of different figures. Most informative.

So. Im still right. Cheers mate. Toodle pip.

its interesting to see the difference in height of player from original to replica (both HW and LW). Also the rim of the topspin bases compared to the santiago. The topspin appear to be sharper than the santiago, possibly just the way its manufactured?



Spud, out of interest, do you have any of the Replay figures to compare against also?

Unfortunately I don't mate...I've only used them in Italy. They look ok, but no better or worse than what's shown above.



The detail and sharpness on the Topspin is definately more defined than on the present Santiago, but both are good. Whether it's down to manufacturing, the mold or where they are made, I don't know. The Santiago mold will be a lot older now and they do wear. Topspin is all made in Italy, Santiago in China.



Personally... I really like both, for different reasons.

Hello boys,
you´ve started a very interesting discussion, especially between Ian and Paul, what Subbuteo really is?
Well, in fact Ian´s arguments are very clearly pointed out and of course Superfooty is another, but very similar game to our old and classic Subbuteo.
But very often I have the feeling that the game and the figures and the rules of the Seventies - when we all were young&innocent and full of hope - are romantically idealized, especially by the Old Subbuteo community (me myself I is a part of it) and every creative attempt of the last years to develope the game with new material, new bases, new rules, new figures ... is dissed COS there is one classic GLORY (like Lady Madonna): the game of the seventies and its great figures and bases! So the only thing which is allowed to do, is to replicate the old material to nearly 100%.
When I started my comeback four years ago I was very surprised about all the new developments, new companies, new material, new figures (and I loved the new Corda 2k4 figures, BRILLIANT, especially the vintage figures, WOW!!, and of course some of the new bases with new abilities ... so many things to discover, also polishing, a great time for me as a curiuous human being. And now I have really an excellent view over the Subbuteo landscape and I enjoy it!
So whats the problem: if anybody tries to optimize the old bases and figures for better shooting, gliding, spinning ... why not??
I like playing classic or retro Subbuteo, and in the last time I prefer it, BUT I also have no problem to play with new material and I enjoy it, too. Sometimes I like Whisky, sometimes Whiskey, sometimes beer, sometimes a glass of vine, and sometimes ?ex ...
I´ve found a great comment to the disputs you often find in the World of Subbuteo or Table Football, taken from the american Subbuteo technical page:
There seems to be some controversy in the Subbuteo world about what
Subbuteo playing actually is. Is it what is called Table Soccer (pro
bases and FISTF rules) or is it retro playing ("old" equipment and
advanced rules)? In my opinion, it is all the same. Just variations
around the same basic game that has always involved a pitch, a plastic
ball and plastic figures. Anyways, even the people using the advanced
rules are not that retro because they are not required to use the
"diving" goal-keeper and they are allowed to polish their bases. So lots
of discussion for not much, really."
PS: Paul, I can´t understand your problem with the Superfooty plastic goals - if you are able to fit the nets, not so easy cos they are very hard designed, THEN they work fantastic. In the meantime I like them so much cos of their great "ball-in-nets-feeling" that I changed them against my metal goals.

PS two: The new Italian edition is a great starter set - without any doubt. My compliment.

I think this is just a start of what might prove to be a few years of table football's rise to the top again;)

I have to say that in all of my (small but growing) collection, my Top Spin teams (painted by a member here) are far and away my favourites. I'm not sure whether it's that the bases seem to be a tiny tiny bit bigger than original HW and that that gives the players a bit more presence on the pitch, or whether its that they seem very slightly heavier than Santiago (which I have lots of too). Or whether it's just that the painter and I seem to like the same teams and he's really good at painting.
But I do know this... I was as excited as a little kid on Christmas morning when I saw this new set... I've already told my wife about it five times I think. I cannot wait to get one. And, of course, all the boxed teams that Top Spin releases.
Just fabulous.

Welcome to the forum mate. I think it's fantastic that we have so many products to purchase now. There is a figure and base that pretty much caters for everyone's needs.

Only last night i arranged for a friends little son to have his first Subbuteo/Topspin set. His little face lit up in expectation. Teaching him the game will be fun... I haven't got much patience, but i'm sure it will be worth it in the long term.

Topspin have now got 54 retail outlets in Italy.

How great it must be to walk along the street and see Window displays like below. With Handpainted HW Teams and Box sets and accessories...just like the 70's8)

Only just found this thread! How slow am I. No answers required.



I like the look of this box set.

Spud ...

When you next see Alberto, can you ask him to think about producing a COTTON SIX-A-SIDE pitch please?

I have to say, having bought quite a few modern bits from Astrobase and alike, it is really quite nice to buy stuff and realise you haven't bust your 'fun fund' in one hit. Quite a significant factor, that I had overlooked previously, the affordability of the products at entry level. Much cheaper to get an OLDSUBBUTEO tournament set up, than a competition requiring ASTROS and METAL GOALS.

Also Spud ...

Is there an OLDSUBBUTEO association / organisation in Italy?

Sorry to laugh mate...but that has to be the best understatement ever

It's massive... Our own Club came about after me visiting Italy and playing in Oldsubbuteo Tournements. I started to spread the word about the 'old' values and playing with 'Classic' equipment. Then Jon got about organising and the rest is history.

You need to go on the Oldsubbuteo forum http://oldsubbuteo.forumfree.it/

There is an English section and translation button.

Official rankings have been scrapped to discourage over competiveness.But there are masses of Clubs and Tournements.

You'd be welcome to join me next time i go over to play in a Tourney. Fabio Bertola of this forum is the man in the know of all things Oldsubbuteo Italiano style...as well as Claudio.

so hows the skiing and apres ski spud?

went down to jims last night for a chat and a few games of subby.

he was on fine form.

results: 0-0,jim 3-0,0-0,jim 2-1.

I KNEW IT!



I suspected you were getting a few training sessions in, JR.

I'm gonna be watchin' you very cafefully from now on.



Hope Jimbo is at the next meeting. I missed his banter last time.

steve,

i think i went backwards in practise!

i think jim hopes to be there 26/2

subbuteo forever 207 wrote:

so hows the skiing and apres ski spud?

went down to jims last night for a chat and a few games of subby.

he was on fine form.

results: 0-0,jim 3-0,0-0,jim 2-1.

Good to know Jimbo is still interested...for some reason I was under the impression he had given up.

I certainly hope not, he's one of the founding members and real backbone of the club.

Just wish i was sharing the fun with you guys...

As for the Skiing...it's very tough. The Course is intense. So much to learn on the slope, then you have to read teaching manuals at night.

So not much apres i'm afraid Jon.

I've competed in Two GS races though. Came 14th from 140 odd starts and 5th from 47 starters. So not so bad on the racing front.

The old git still has some life in him yet...and i'm getting a lot fitter.

Couple of pics for you...

Heading out in Battle Gear and out practicing some off piste. Forgot to say it was minus 25 degrees last week and i got some Frostbite on my face. It's since healed up...so that's a relief. Catch you when time allows chaps...

GREAT photo, Ian. Can almost feel the stresses of life falling away just by looking at it and getting a sense of the open space and freedom. Beautiful.

time for an awayday in Italy I think

That would be awesome if we could get a small group together and go play in Italy. The Italian boys do it...no reason why we can't.

Steve...If i was on holiday it would be stress free. Unfortunately it's all hard work. I'm on my lunch break after doing a steep mogul field called the Head Wall. Brown pant day...

great photo Ian and pretty impressive stuff in the grand salom races

also i wondered what had happened to spiderman recently